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Download Recording of Lord Mawson and Noel Pearson in conversation: "Snake Leviathan", 36 minutes for $11.00

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Snake Leviathan

1. Andrew Mawson and Noel Pearson - 36 uncut minutes of a highly compelling conversation. This is a sound track extract from the forthcoming documentary on social entrepreneurship, social enterprise and the challenges of the East End of London and Australia's Cape York Peninsula. The documentary was filmed and recorded by Lew Griffiths, Oziris Films at the Daintree Ecolodge, Mossman, North Queensland.

Download the Recording of Lord Mawson and Noel Pearson in conversation: "Snake Leviathan", 36 minutes

Between showers of rain in the Daintree Rainforest, two great social leaders Noel Pearson and Lord Andrew Mawson sat down to have a candid discussion about the issues they faced in their respective communities of Cape York Peninsula and the East End of London.

It was a great discussion - astonishing, illuminating and revealing - it lasted two hours and followed on from a social entrepreneur's "master class" at Noel Pearson's Cape York Institute. Meanwhile the cameras' followed Lord Mawson in his discussions with Noel and Gerhardt Pearson through board rooms and church halls across Australia.

How could the problems and issues across 12,000 kilometres - from the poor communities of the East End to the poor remote communities of Cape York  -  be so similar? How could Andrew finish Noel's sentences and vice versa??? 

A stunning documentary is being prepared by Oziris Films so watch this space. But for those who want a small taste of the forthcoming documentary, you can download a sound extract by double clicking on the link at top or at bottom below.

Here is the introduction to that segment of the discussion we are calling "Snake Leviathan".

Transcript introduction to the Snake Leviathan

The recording cuts in at this point...

Noel Pearson: I’ve found that over the ten years we have been combating government there is a huge institutional resistance to letting go of the responsibilities that government can’t actually deliver on. There’s no admission…

Andrew Mawson: Humility!...

Noel Pearson: There’s no humility! (Chuckle) Because there’s no memory. We don’t remember that the great educational iteration of 2008 was last iterated in 2003 and that the last iteration before that was back in 1998…

Andrew Mawson: And no-one has stayed the long game to understand the cumulative effect..

Noel Pearson: It’s like an archaeology of policy that nobody has memory of – the bureaucracy hates memory. I’ve been around in the Indigenous game in Australia long enough to have seen 3 or 4 iterations of the new policy paradigm.

Andrew Mawson: …We’ve got the solution!

Noel Pearson:  Yes. There’s no admission that what was attempted hasn’t worked and maybe that’s not just because a) we didn’t put enough money into it or b) we never got the implementation right. There’s no realisation that maybe this has failed because this is something that we as a State can’t do! Maybe that’s the reason we have failed!! We are trying to do something that the State cannot do!!! But to get that kind of thinking and understanding has been an ongoing, and still is an ongoing struggle, on our part. Pushing back the state to that role that it can best perform and getting it out of the way…

Andrew Mawson: That rings a lot of bells with us in East London. Like you, we’ve stayed the course for a quarter of a century. So we’ve watched four or five governments come past our door: 19 different versions of the National Health Service, a whole endless restructuring of this that and the other which has cost millions of pounds. And in very poor communities when you start yet another re-structure it takes three years for it all to settle down, at which point there is another restructure. So its like a permanent revolution of the National Health Service in East London . It's like trying to operate on a conveyor belt and the chaos of it all for staff trying to deliver is crazy. What you need in poor and difficult communities is a long term view, some continuity. You have to create a sense of rhythm. I am very much into the idea of creating something that has rhythm and is regular and reliable. So when people’s lives are very chaotic, they can join in with something that has continuity. So I think that having a long view is very important and the problem with government cycles, as you were saying, is that it is very difficult for it to have a long view. I keep watching these officials come and go and they all come and talk to us as if there were the first one that we have ever talked to, and they assume that I can’t remember the ones that have passed our door. So that point about memory is very important, it's about knowing what has worked and what hasn’t.  That’s why we have tried to be very clear about the long term view and developing a vision for the area - its about staying the long course and being very clear we are in it for the marathon and not a hundred yard dash. I think when you get clear about that it affects how you deal with things.

Noel Pearson: I’m interested and really taken by your metaphor of the snake over time – the leviathan of government, tell me about it….

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This project was supported by National Australia Bank, Rio Tinto, Gilbert and Tobin,  Cape York Insitute, Balkanu Cape York Economic Development Corporation, Andrew Mawson Partnerships, Cathy and Terry Maloney and family and the Kuku Yalanji people.

The documentary and sound recording were made at the beautiful Daintree Ecolodge and Spa. The Daintree Ecolodge and Spa is a unique collaboration with the Kuku Yalanji people and has helped over forty Indigenous people find work without any government assistance. If you want to see the Daintree or Port Douglas area and if you want to hear first hand about the Indigenous rainforest heritage then we highly recommend this wonderful place managed by Terry and Cathy Maloney and family.